Today’s role for Aristotelian theory on Art..,
As a group we want to explore deeper searching questions of the relationships with our daily activities; our enjoyable times here in the creative lounge or how do you believe in general life has advanced.., Do Aristotle’s ideas still applied in today’s Modern day .,
Are we becoming thinkers working on auto pilot that we do not question our abilities to think?
Aristotle describes this impulse as humanity’s “Desire to know,”.
Aristotle presented three methods for classifying art based on the idea of art as imitation. The first method involves a difference in the means of imitation. In the first chapter of Poetics, Aristotle wrote, “Just as color and form are used as means by some . . .and the voice is used by others; . . .the means with them as a whole are rhythm, language, and harmony.” These three elements, whether they are combined or employed separately, constitute the means of imitation. This definition provides a way to distinguish among music, poetry, dance, and drama
We continue with more examples of Aristotle’s theory
These basic stipulations are that mimesis is fundamental to our nature as human beings, that human beings are the most imitative of all creatures, that first learning experiences take place through mimesis, and that all human beings take pleasure in mimesis because all find “learning and inference” essentially pleasant. Since the focus of the Poetics is mainly on literary mimesis, it is necessary for us to concentrate on Aristotle’s understanding of the way this aspect of mimetic activity leads to the intellectual pleasure he assigns to art.
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Peter Filzmaier – Artist at Filzmaier Studio
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Aristotle refers to “The aim of art is to represent not the outward experience, but the inner significance”, When I think of inner significance three things come to mind, imagination, individuality and originality. Since each of our life experiences are different our imaginations should be distinctly different and our perception can vary significantly based on our learning and determination to risk failure to learn. Our originality in my thoughts is a result of how we reflect our imagining from within through our habitual creative practice to present the imagined into a work of art.A learning process such as this is never ending as long as we desire to create and every time we create a work of art from our imagining we risk the out come but the more we risk the more we learn and the more our work evolves. The creative lounge, the theme exhibitions and our interaction with one another are all part of the learning experience as is the our attitude towards the simplest and most menial tasks as these things are all part of who we are.
Paartho Mitro AN Artist
painter,artist,cartoonist
YOU ARE VERY CORRECT ,MY FRIEND ! BUT WHAT I FEEL IS … “LEARNING” MEANS ..” LEARNING THE WORLD TO KNOW YOUR SELF ” AND ” LEARNING YOUR SELF TO KNOW THE WORLD ” THAT IS THE CONSTANT PRACTICE …OF LIFE TO MAKE YOURSELF A PERFECT HUMAN BEING ….THEN WE CAN THINK OF CREATIVITY …A PERFECT HUMAN BEING (EGO LESS) CAN GO CLOSE TO”GOD”…THEN WE CAN THINK OF CREATE SOME THING ..”GREAT”…..
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
… can it also be a little bit Socrates? … or is this rustic man not fit for nobility Aristotle? … I’ll think about it I promise you … Servus Edgar
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Edgar when we are talking about The Great Thinkers in our conversation How can we leave out The Philosophy of Socrates and his famous quotes to us all.
“True wisdom comes to each of us when we realize how little we understand about life, ourselves, and the world around us.”
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Are these discussions not an example of the Socratic method, a process of learning amongst those engaged in this process, of questions and answers not specifically directed at defining absolutes but postulating possibilities to further discovery and enrich the personal journey?
Ruth Edward Anderson
Owner at REArt (Ruth Edward Anderson)
I once again Shout Out that “I Love This Group”. So far with just a few comments it’s loads of fun. I haven’t read much of anything about philosophy. So it’s difficult for me to post a perfect quote by either Socrates or Aristotle. That said I’ll just sit back & learn from all of you. xoxoxo
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Hallo und Servus …
…Sokrates ist 399 v.Chr. mit einem Giftbecher hingerichtet worden, weil er angeblich die Jugend zu Faulheit und Müßiggang verführt habe … er wäre begnadigt worden, wenn er freiwillig widerrufen hätte … er lebte von einer kleinen Erbschaft von seinem Vater und war ein Müßiggänger und Sprücheklopfer … vermutlich konnte nicht einmal schreiben … es gibt von ihm persönlich keine Schriften, sondern nur von seinen Schülern … dass sein Eheweib Xanthippe einen Nachttopf über seiner Glatze entleert haben soll, dürfte tatsächlich stimmen … sein Ausspruch “Heirate oder heirate nicht, du wirst beides bereuen” kann nur ihr gegolten haben … andererseits soll sie die Güte in Person gewesen sein … die Kernaussage für sein Leben war “Ich weiß, dass ich nichts weiß” … das stimmte für Goethe’s Faust und stimmt auch für uns …
Aristoteles war 15 Jahre alt als in Athen diese Todesstrafe vollzogen wurde … inwieweit er direkt oder indirekt von Sokrates beeinflusst war, weiß ich nicht … mit seinem Ausspruch “Es gibt kein großes Genie ohne einen Schuss Verrücktheit” kann er Sokrates durchaus gemeint haben, aber es stimmt auch für uns …
Sokrates gefällt mir besser … es dürfte richtig sein, dass er unser westliches Denken am meisten beeinflusst hat … Aristoteles hingegen schwebte geistig 5 Zoll über dem Boden … aber weil ich das nicht kann, ist er mir 5 Zoll fremd geblieben …
I’m a linocut – and you?
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in my English:
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Socrates 399 BC. been executed with a cup of hemlock, because he had allegedly seduced the youth of Athens to laziness and idleness … he would have been pardoned if he had withdrawn voluntarily … he lived on a small inheritance from his father and was a loafer and highly intelligent Sprücheklopfer … he probably could not even write … there are no writings by him personally, but only of his students … that his wedded wife Xanthippe supposed to have emptied a chamber pot over his bald head, might actually be right … be saying “Marry or do not marry, you will regret both” can only have been regarded her … on the other hand they should have been the goodness in person … the core message of his life was “I know that I know nothing” … was true for Goethe’s Faust and true for us …
Aristotle was 15 years old than in Athens this death sentence was carried out … whether he was directly or indirectly influenced by Socrates, I do not know … when he said “There is no great genius without a shot craziness” Socrates, he may well have meant, but it is also for us …
Socrates I like much better … it may be true that he has influenced Western thought our most … Aristotle, however, floated mentally 5 inches above the ground … but because I can not, he’s been a stranger to me 5 inches …
I’m only a linocut – and you?
Servus from Hallein
Edgar
Ruth Edward Anderson – Owner at REArt (Ruth Edward Anderson)
Hi Edgar, my dear friend
Well if you’re a linocut than I’m an unfinished sculpture. Hopefully by the day I die I’ll have finished sculpting myselI don’t know much about these guys, Socrates & Aristotle but I really like the quote you gave from Socrates “I know that I know nothing” that certainly applies to me. I will never know enough, on the day I return to the Universe my poor brain will be mostly empty. I need many lives, each time remembering the one before in order to fill my brain to capacity. Aristotle I love, because you tell me “he floated mentally 5 inches above the ground.” I’d love to have that kind of brain: so full and knowing even though all that knowledge could at time produce such aching saddness. So I accept them both as Great Men who helped to shape our world.
My favorite poem is “The Lovesong of J. Alfred Prufrock”, I guess that says something about me.
Paartho Mitro AN Artist
painter,artist,cartoonist
I AM VERY HAPPY WITH THE GROUP …..I THING …MOST OF THEM ARE REAL EDUCATED …. I CAN LEARN MANY THING …FROM THIS GROUP ……
“GOD BLESS MY FRIENDS ”
“I LOVE YOU MY GROUP “
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Paartho … your pictures are remarkable! … where do you get your ideas and motives? … I also like your profile sketch … what does it say? … Servus from Hallein near Salzburg in Austria (Europe) … Edgar
I’m a linocut – and you?
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Hello Ruth, I am as perceived by others at a given moment in time subject to change from the effect of a continuing process of learning and meditation. Tell the Joker through meditation he can get higher than 5 inches. He may even have an out of body experience and present us with a linocut rendition of Chagall.
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
… geht nicht … Aristoteles ist tot und kann nicht mehr meditieren … und Chagall konnte in jede Höhe hinauf schweben … geht also auch nicht … die haben doch beide lange vor uns gelebt … wusstet Ihr das nicht? …
free in Google-English:
… does not go … Aristotle is dead and can no longer meditate … Chagall’s spirit could hover in any height up … can meditate without the … therefore also does not … furthermore both have lived long before us … did you not know that? …
hoho joker
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Edgar, You can’t say they lived before you. You might be an old soul and known them both
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Peter … their bodies can no longer hover, are dead! … her spirit may still be alive, but hovering always, because he has no material in the earthly sense … with their spirits I was this afternoon after a joint Fitnes march in a nice beer garden … they are now called Franz and Ewald … and now I go to sleep … Servus and good night … Edgar …
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Hello Ruth, yes I believe very strongly in fairness. With equality I would have to add opportunity. I think a lot about the natural world and find there is no equality in nature but nature provides unlimited opportunity and so in regard to equal opportunity I believe any human anywhere in the world should have the same opportunities to be free, to be happy, to nourish and shelter their families and to pursue their dreams and my sense of fairness would add that those less able should be given the opportunity for assistance so their lives have as much meaning as the most able.
I believe there is honour in doing our best regardless of our profession and there is honour in helping others do their best.
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
… eine Malerei beispielsweise des 20./21. Jahrhunderts war zur Zeit des Aristoteles unbekannt … wenn wir uns von seiner “mimesìs” leiten lassen, müssen wir akzeptieren, dass er eigentlich über Poetik memoriert, die damals bereits hoch entwickelt war … er geht davon aus, dass Kunst Nachahmung bedeutet “zur Freude der Menschen” … das machen wir Maler auch … wir malen zur Freude für uns selbst, wir malen aber auch zur Freude unserer Umwelt … und zur unserer eigenen Selbstbestätigung … auch wir brauchen Applaus, wenn wir uns weiter entwickeln wollen … Aristoteles hatte keinen finanziellen Aspekt im Auge … auch die anderen “Analytiker der Lebensweisheiten” kaum … sehr oft waren sie Träumer die von der Hand in den Mund lebten … und in alten Fässern wohnten …
… ich möchte gerne wissen, ob ein Rembrandt oder ein Picasso oder wir anders gemalt hätten, wenn Aristoteles nicht die Poetik sondern die darstellende Kunst als Mutter der gesamten Kunst verehrt hätte … oder ist jede Philosophie nur graue Theorie? … ich gestehe, als ehemaliger Maschinenbauingenieur neige zu dieser Ansicht … wie sehr oft meine Kommentare zeigen … aber ohne den Zündfunken des Widerspruches wäre jede philosophische Betrachtung tatsächlich graue Theorie für Spinner … und ebenso ohne Humor! …
in my English:
… for example a painting of 20-21. century was in the time of Aristotle unknown … if we let ourselves be guided from his “mimesis”, we must accept that he actually memorized about poetics that was already highly developed … he believes that art is imitation “to the delight of the people” … what we painters are doing also … we paint for joy for ourselves, but we also paint to the delight of our environment … and for our own self-affirmation … we also will need applause when we want to develop further … Aristotle had no financial aspect … the other “analysts worldly wisdoms” hardly … very often they were dreamers who lived from hand to mouth … and were living in old barrels …
… I would like to know if a Rembrandt or a Picasso or we differently would have painted if Aristotle had not honoured the poetry but the performing arts as the mother of all arts … or any philosophy is only gray theory? … I admit, as a former mechanical engineer tend towards this view … how often show my comments … but without the ignition spark of contradiction would be every philosophical consideration actually gray theory for spinners … and also devoid of humour! …
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… and grey is all theorie about a good translater …
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Edgar – And yet Aristotle is also credited to have said,” The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance, but the inward significance”. To me this implies the individual experience of the artist creating for his or herself which affirms some of your response. In a sense philosophy is like faith. it stimulates beliefs and imaginings that affect our changing perspective of the realities of our lives and affirms the cause and effect of volition without which this would be a gray world for me.
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Ja Peter, ich akzeptiere Aristo (ein Kurzbegriff hiesiger Philo-Studenten) auch, dass er die ganz Kunst-Familie damit auf einen Nenner bringt … ich stellte nur die Frage, wie sein Lehrsatz gelautet hätte, wenn die Malerei damals bereits den Stellenwert von 2013 gehabt hätte … und ich frage, hätten Rembrandt und Picasso dann anders gemalt … und wir auch … wie würde ein linocut aussehen oder eine Altmeistertechnik? … natürlich ernennen sich selbst viele Philosophen zu Religionsstiftern und sind das in einzelnen Fälle ein wenig … sie sind schließlich sogar die Väter der modernen Mathematik … aber meistens leben sie in einem alten Fass … meine Abschlußfrage für heute: Wie würden wir ohne Philosophen sein? Könnten wir dann überhaupt leben?
… die letzte Frage wollte ich wesentlich härter formulieren … aber das tut man in Gegenwart von Damen nicht! …
in my English:
Yes Peter, I accept Aristo (a short-term Philo of local students) and that he thus brings the whole family of art to a common denominator art … I asked only the question of how his theorem would have read if the painting had then already had the value of 2013 … and I ask, Rembrandt and Picasso would have then painted different … and we also … would look like a linocut or a old master technology? … of course appoint themselves to many philosophers and religious founders are in some cases a little … they are, after all, even the fathers of modern mathematics … but mostly they live in an old barrel … my final question for today: How would we be without philosophers? Could we live at all?
… The last question I wanted to formulate much harder … but that one does not in the presence of ladies! …
Servus aus Hallein
Edgar
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Edgar, who can know how Rembrandt and Picasso would have painted but we can agree their talent would still have produced the quality we attribute to them. To me you are a philosopher in hiding as we all are in our reflections of being until others put value to our thoughts. Without philosophy we would live in the world of animals subsisting from nature as they do. We would have no concept of beauty, no art, no music, no literature etc. Our lives would revolve around a value system that rewards the creation of functional objects that would enhance a material existence totally lacking in faith, beauty and regard for those who do not or are unable to contribute to material accumulation. It would be a world of instinctual behaviour totally lacking in intuition. It would preclude any concepts of democracy or freedom in favour of survival of the fittest or strongest.
Ruth Edward Anderson
Owner at REArt (Ruth Edward Anderson)
Hi Peter I only wish I could express myself as well as you. Everything you have written to me is how I believe and feel. From the time I was in Kindergarten I felt strongly about helping those less fortunate. Once when I was about 7 yrs. I kept loading my little red wagon up with my toys & walked to a poor neighbourhood & give out my toys. I did this until nothing was left put the little red wagon…which I than gave away. I am still this person.
I totally agree with you about the natural world. But we have minds to think with & to understand beyond the natural world. So I am 100% in sync with you that “any human anywhere in the world should have the same opportunities to be free, to be happy, to nourish and shelter their families and to pursue their dreams”. Since I have MS a disability, with to date no cure, I am in total agreement with your statement to me: “my sense of fairness would add that those less able should be given the opportunity for assistance so their lives have as much meaning as the most able”. In fact, I believed this way from childhood because my parents taught us to feel for those who had less.
Peter It seems to me that we are very similar in our outlook on life. I feel like you do about religion & politics, about fairness, etc. I just can’t express myself as well as you do. When you write all your words are so beautiful, your thoughts so clear. You have a way of expressing yourself that most of us lack & it’s always a pleasure for me to read everything you have to say.
Ruth Edward Anderson
Owner at REArt (Ruth Edward Anderson)
Wow Peter your final answer to Edgar’s questions is so wonderful, enlightening and beautiful that I will be thinking about it all day. I don’t see how we can put Rembrandt & Picasso in the same bucket. Rembrandt lived in a very different time period when paintings were done for the church or rich merchants & that determined the style & subject matter.
Picasso lived in a more open time period when artists were getting together talking, exchanging ideas & experimenting. Picasso kept exploring & pushing the envelope his entire life. To go to the Picasso Museum in Paris is a treat as you experience all of his time periods. He was one of the leaders of innovation in art and constantly changed his style of painting, always exploring something new.
If Rembrandt were alive today I believe he would be world famous, have a great style & would be on the leading edge of experimentation. He would be leader in the Art World.
Picasso would have painted in his every changing style if he were still alive today. Both are two of my favorite artists for very different reasons.
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Peter du hast mich durchschaut … möglicherweise bin ich ein verborgener Philosoph … ich habe vor 30 Jahren an der Universität Salzburg einige Semester an der Theologie inskribiert … vorrangig wollte ich die Welt meiner Kinder kennen lernen … die Vorlesungen des anerkannten Religionsphilosophen Prof. Bachl über “Gotteslehre” und “Bibelkunde” haben mir gezeigt, dass oberhalb den Doktrinen der Philosophen ein immanentes, höheres Wissen gibt … dort wo der menschliche Verstand endet … auch jener der Philosophen …
dazu eine typische Argumentation a la Edgar Plaute … ich stelle mir vor, was du und ich getan hätten, wenn uns kein Philosoph in Empfang genommen hätte, als wir vor 500 Mio Jahren als Lurche an Land gekrochen waren und vor 250 Mio Jahren gelernt hatten aufrecht zu gehen … wenn uns kein ausreichender Intelligenz qoutient bei der Hand genommen hätte … wir wären sehr schnell zurück ins Meer zu den Algen abgetaucht …
… die Philosophen haben uns Schönheit in jeder Dimension definiert und Wollust gelehrt, wofür wir ihnen dankbar sein sollten … bis einer von uns intelligent genug geworden wäre, unsere Welt selbst in die Hand zu nehmen … und systematisch zugrunde zu richten … soeben 21 Uhr 45 kommt die Meldung durch, dass Obama soeben den Militärschlag gegen Syrien angeordnet hat … and last but not least Plato, Aristo, Sokra und ihresgleichen haben es gut gemacht! … aber sie waren die gleichen Menschen wie wir heute …
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Peter you seen through me … maybe I’m a hidden philosopher … I have few semesters enrolled in theology 30 years ago at the University of Salzburg … I mainly wanted to know the world of my children … the lectures of the renowned religious philosopher Prof. Bachl about “doctrine of God” and “biblical studies” have shown me that the above doctrines of the philosophers is an immanent, higher knowledge … where the human mind ends … also that of the philosopher …
… anticipate a typical argumentation by Edgar Plaute … I imagine what you and I would have done if us not would have taken a philosopher in reception when we were crawled on land 500 million years ago as amphibians and as had learned before 250 million years walking upright … if no sufficient intelligence quotient would have taken us by the hand … we would very quickly dived back to the algae in the sea …
… the philosopher have taught us to define beauty and lust, for which we should be grateful to them … until one of us would be smart enough, our world, to take into our own hands … and systematically to ruin … just been 21 clock 45, the message comes through that Obama has just ordered the military strike against Syria … and last but not least, Plato, Aristo, Socrates and their ilk have done well! … but they were the same people as we are today …
Servus from Hallein
Edgar
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Hallo Ruth … natürlich kann man Rembrandt und Picasso nicht in denselben Korb legen … ich stelle also meine Frage nochmals :
… Aristoteles leitet seinen Begriff “Schönheit der Kunst” von der Poetik ab, weil zu seiner Zeit die Malkunst nicht ausgeprägt war … dazu hatte er sogar sehr viel zu sagen! … seine Lehre wirkt bis Rembrandt und bis Picasso und bis zu uns heute und zu unseren Nachkommen … ich denke daher laut darüber nach, wie sich die Malkunst bis heute entwickelt hätte, wenn Aristoteles mehr über die Malkunst soviel gewusst hatte wie über poetic … hätte Rembrandt dann anders gemalt? … hätte Picasso dann anders gemalt? … und würden wir heute anders malen? … ich glaube nicht, denn Philosophen sind nur graue Theorie … die Maler sind die Praxis und stehen mitten im Leben …
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Hi Ruth … Rembrandt and Picasso, of course you can not put in the same basket … therefore I ask my question again:
… Aristotle derives its concept of from “beauty of the art” from the poetic because in his time the painting was not pronounced … time, he even had a lot to say! … his teaching and acts to Rembrandt to Picasso and to this day for us and for our descendants … I therefore think aloud about how the painting would have developed until today, when Aristotle more about the art of painting had known as much about poetic … Rembrandt would have painted differently then? … Picasso had then painted differently? … and would we paint different today? … I think not, because philosophers are only grey theory … the painters are in practice and are living life …
Servus aus Österreich
Edgar
Ruth Edward Anderson
Owner at REArt (Ruth Edward Anderson)
Edgar I already wrote words about Rembrandt and Picasso alive & painting today. Picasso would have continued to explore art in all ways just as he did while alive. He would have continued to have different females as his muse. Taking a new wife or mistress when the original no longer inspired his art.n
Rembrandt would have gone w bild in this open age where he was free to paint with no constraints. He would have been known world wide & been a leader in thinking way outside the box. Perhaps their spirits are living in all of us!
I look forward to how our Wonderful Peter will answer your questions & make more sense out of my answer. Peter is the most wonderful of any in his use of the written English word.
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Good evening as it is here in the UK welcome to all our founder members enjoying deep conversation on Aristotelian theory and also bring both Picasso and Rembrandt as two great masters during their times and still continue for their contribution today We can draw interesting parallels also as they all left behind higher standard of works and achievement that was accomplished during their time..
Peter you introduced many examples of Aristotle’s finer achievement
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Sunil danke Dir für deinen Kommentar … ich habe ganz bewusst eine provokante Frage in den Raum gestellt, weil ich aus meinem Berufsleben noch sehr genau in Erinnerung habe, dass dann qualifizierte Antworten kommen … Peter ist ein kongenialer(!) Gesprächspartner und Ruth eine Frau, die zuhören kann und dann für sich verblüffend einfache Schlüsse daraus zieht … schade dass es nicht möglich mit diesen beiden großartigen Menschen an einem runden Tisch zu sitzen, ein Glas von Peters Turky Oaks Wein zu genießen und Aristo hoch leben zu lassen … aber auch alle anderen hoch leben zu lassen, die dieses Thema noch nicht aufgegriffen haben …
ich versuche, meine Frage nochmals mit anderen Worten zu stellen … die alten Griechen waren Meister des Wortes … ihre Werke haben Jahrtausende überdauert und erleben eine sehr beachtliche Renaissance … viele lebende Schriftsteller und Regisseure greifen sie auf und machen etwas Neues daraus … ich entdecke aber keine Parallele in der Malkunst … warum? … vielleicht kann irgendjemand zwei oder drei praktische Beispiele nennen? … der bekommt auch ein Glas virtuellen Weines von Peter …
Sunil have a nice Sunday … Servus aus Hallein …
Edgar
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Sunil thank you for your comment … I deliberately asked a provocative question into the room, because I have made my career very accurately in mind that then come qualified answers … Peter is a congenial (!) Counterpart and Ruth, a woman who is able to listen and then draws simple conclusions from it amazingly simple … pity that it is not possible to have to sit with you three great people at a round table to enjoy a glass of wine from Peters Turky Oaks and Aristo live high … but also all the others who will take up this topic yet …
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… I try, therefore, to ask my question again with other words … The ancient Greeks were masters of the word … their works have survived thousands of years and experience a very remarkable Renaissance … many living writers and directors rely on them and make something new out of it … but I find no parallel in the art of painting … why? … where? … perhaps someone two or three practical examples? … gets a virtual glass of wine Peter …
Sunil have a nice Sunday … Hello from Hallein …
Edgar
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Good morning Ruth …
… you remeber … 5 Zoll above the floor … download
https://sphotos-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1186954_645050025519818_1886068915_n.jpg
… that’s a foto of Aristotels’ wife … maybe …
Servus from Austria
Edgar
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Hello Edgar, Perhaps your answer is in the picture of Aristotle’s wife. We have to release the ball and chain to get to a level where we look at what has come before us and create our own ” Venus Rising”, with the understanding that philosophy can inspire art.
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Yes Peter …
… if we throw off ballast, we are making progress … however, this is very difficult, if not impossible, depending on how much we are willing to … or we we shape our course of life leave …
… I had a meeting with the chairman of our Halleiner Malforums that happens to fit this here today … he can not understand that I am fallen from a painter to a childish Handyman … he judges linocut … since he himself the potters of garden gnomes Keramik turned out, he has unfortunately become somewhat one-sided … he even banished my leveled tiles in the drawer childish tinkering …
… Aristotels’ wife could try to take the ball in her hands? … maybe it is easier then? …
Servus Edgar
Ruth Edward Anderson
Owner at REArt (Ruth Edward Anderson)
Edgar & Peter I think that artist’s have already thrown off the ball & chain. We don’t like to conform, we don’t like to be chained down, we want to be able to fly, to seek out new ideas, to paint in any way/direction we feel like taking. I do believe what Peter has said that “philosophy can inspire art”. But that only happens once we have the courage to release the ball & chain. I have always been a non-conformist if my parents or a teacher tried to punish me I would turn it into a game. My point is this: We have control, we can unchain ourselves any time we want to so we can fly. If we remain chained it is because we want to be controlled. I, for one, can’t stand to be controlled & would rather fly free & take my chances of falling then be chained to the ground.
Hugs to All
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Hello Edgar, perhaps the chairman is feeding your doubts, Let me assure you your work is original and has value to people who see art objectively and do not, like your chairman, approach art from a subjective point of view which he then protects with exclusivity by putting your work in a drawer. I would cordially thank him for his opinion and say aufwiedersen.
As to Aristotle’s wife, why would she want to carry the ball and chain when they are mere symbols or possessions weighing her down? To retain an old concept that you have determined to be lacking with a new concept would be a contradiction resulting in indecision that retards progression. The ball and chain are a contradiction to her freedom to rise to greater heights.
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Hallo Peter …
… wir Künstler sagen den Betrachtern unserer Bilder immer, im Bild ist das drinnen, was du siehst … das sagte auch ein Marc Chagall und viele andere … mir gefiel dieses Bild als Ergänzung zu einer meiner anfänglichen Aussagen, wonach mir selbst der mit dem Boden verwurzelte Sokrates näher liegt als ein Aristo der für mich 5 Zoll über dem Boden schwebt … das Bild zeigt aber eine Frau und “Frau Aristo” war geboren … ohne jede Absicht meinerseits …
… ich danke dir lieber Peter für dein klares Bekenntnis zum Linolschnitt … ich habe nicht vor aufzugeben … ich kann recht gut damit leben, weil ich davon nicht leben muss … mir geht es nicht um Verkauf sondern um die Freude an etwas Neuem … ich bestelle mir auch im Restaurant meisten eine neue Speise, die ich nicht kenne … außer wenn es frischen Schweinsbraten mit Knödel gibt … ich denke Peter kennt das auch ohne Übersetzung … 2 mal Schweinebraten in der Woche ist für mich ein Sokrates und 5 mal das fremde Neue ist für mich der Aristoteles … ich habe das Gefühl, für ihn sollte ich erst einmal ein guter Kaligraph und Epiker sein …
Servus aus Hallein
Edgar
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Hi Peter …
… we artists always tell the viewers of our images, the image that is inside, what do you see … which also said a Marc Chagall and many others … I liked this as a supplement to my initial statement, which is even closer to me rooted to the bottom Socrates as an Aristo is for me 5 inch hanging over the floor … but the image shows a woman and “woman Aristo” was born … without any intent on my part …
… I thank you my dear Peter for your clear commitment to the lino … I did not give up on! … I can very well live with it because I do not have to live with it … I feel it’s not about selling but about the joy of something new … I order in the restaurant most of a new dish that I do not know … unless there is fresh Schweinsbraten mit Knödel … I think Peter knows even without translation … roast pork in 2 times a week is a Socrates for me and 5 times the strange new thing is for me the Aristotle … I feel for him I should first be a good calligraphy …
Servus from Hallein
Edgar
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Continue discussion..,
Peter you introduced many examples of Aristotle’s finer achievements and contribution to Life and Art also to add to our topic that we are discussing for the month of August and September.., We welcome all members to participation by joining our active members section where we are able to enjoy the opportunity to share our knowledge with all the members of GICAS here in our creative lounges..,
Peter I’ll pick up on an interesting point you mention earlier
Aristotle is also credited to have said,” The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance, but the inward significance”.
We could relate this to also apply the thought that art has a deep enriching effect echoed both inward using our five senses of sight, hear, touch, taste smell, that fellows an outwards appreciation through its surroundings.
Another area we could cover here is that of meditation practises that we enjoy regularly taking an inwards experience into the mind. Scientific research had confirmed regular experienced mediators’ normally reach the base level were all thoughts resonate. All this potentially begins to open our minds to source of knowledge with endless possibilities.
We open the platform to add your thoughts to this or any other points you would like to join us in our conversation to add.., Have a pleasant Sunday!
Ruth Edward Anderson
Owner at REArt (Ruth Edward Anderson)
Hi everyone I really like all that’s going on & I’m learning every time I read the postings. Sunil I can truly relate to Aristotle’s comment you quoted “The ai,m of art is to represent not the outward appearance, but the inward significance”. I feel that all of my art represents that inward part of me. I actually visualize my painting or sculpture in my mind before I start to work on it. That is the best feeling in the world to see my art fully completed before I do it in reality. One of my sayings is:
“I see art, feel art, hear art, taste art because my whole being becomes art”.
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Good morning Edgar, Peter, Ruth. Jenny, Atul, Paathio including all members that are following our conversation today. Hope you all had a interesting weekend. Mine was completing a period of an auspicious spiritual month with the family visiting our largest gathering Hindu devotees in London Temple.., and today completing my series of fasting ..,
Yes Ruth we can still follow a lateral discussion to the same point further expanding by saying:
Art of playing violin or piano or any instrument involves – sight, touch, hearing;
Art of Wine collection – tasting sight, smell, taste;
Art of cookery – touch, smell, taste & sight;
We can also continue this.., how many can you add to our list to increase our conversation.., feel free to add your comments
Ruth Edward Anderson
Owner at REArt (Ruth Edward Anderson)
Sunil you are an amazing person who is filled with such high reasoning & love of life. It is my pleasure to know you & to learn from you & others x
Art of painting in oil – touch, brush strokes, smell, sight & feelings
Art of listening – learning, hearing, thinking & growth;
Art of sculpting – touch, feel, movment, sight.
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
All knowledge is available to us as we need it. How often do we awaken in the morning with a solution to a problem, answer to a question or insight to a piece we are creating. Meditation is similar to the state of mind we experience when we are transitioning from consciousness to sleep. A zone of relaxation and awareness unencumbered by distractions and streams of thoughts. This zone or meditative experience is our access to knowing and creating on an individual and collective level. We all experience this zone when we direct our concentration to a specific thought or act. Through meditation this state of mind can be achieved at will and I would like to suggest that you try meditation everyday prior to beginning your work, clearing your mind of distractions, and at the end of the day before you sleep.
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Hello Ruth, generally I pick a quiet place either on the patio or in the studio for my meditations. The process is similar to hypnosis regarding releasing from the reality of activities and thoughts that deter concentration. A reclined relaxed position with calming thoughts of a natural setting that may be pleasing to you such as sitting by a stream, watching a sunset or thinking of descending a set of 10 or so stairs into cool quiet comfortable place with no distractions, releasing current thoughts with each step you descend and reaching deeper and deeper into a zone of peace and tranquillity becoming one with the creative flow within you. Don’t worry about falling asleep as you will waken refreshed and inspired.
At times I have in the past also used meditative music or chant, ( I like Gregorian chant,) at very low volume as a preliminary means of relaxation.
I also use meditation as a healing process allowing myself to feel the creative energy to regenerate my physical and spiritual being to the perfection of creation and knowing that I am part of this perfection. I believe this can also be used to help others with their afflictions as we are all connected.
Edgar Plaute Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Peter, Sunil, Ruth … can you understand my following words to Antonino? …good morning antonino … I have a feeling that you and I partly live in a different world … our techniques are outsiders and our mediation techniques also … especially my linocuts are not more modern … and meditation is also out of fashion or we Europeans are unfashionable … or the we Europeans are understand from the others … shippers you and I on another boat? … I currently can not think of an answer that can understand or want to understand the other … what do you say? … Servus from Austria to Italy …
….. what would say Aristo, what Jesus Christus, what Buddha and what Mohammed? … what would be their opinion? … and what the three old greece philosophers? …
Serve us from far Europe
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Good morning to you all hope you’ll doing some exciting project, putting an exhibition together; finishing a painting or a sculpture; starting with your thoughts of the next work in progress..,
Welcome to Peter, Edgar. Antonino, Pablo, Celso, Ruth and all members of GICAS
Peter’s Art of meditation using all five senses in balance harmony bringing our sixth sense to play?;
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Creative lounge – Art of conversation – sight, hear, touch;
One for Edgar – Art of lino Cut – sight, touch, & smell;
And not forgetting Antonino – Art of colour wood lays – sight, touch, & hear.
To improve of our skills and technique we increase the balance of use of each of our senses to perfect our Art..,
Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Peter, Sunil, Ruth … can you understand my following words to Antonino? …
buongiorno antonino … Ho la sensazione che tu ed io in parte vive in un mondo diverso … le nostre tecniche sono outsider e le nostre tecniche di mediazione anche … soprattutto le mie incisioni su linoleum non sono più moderni … e la meditazione è anche fuori moda o noi europei sono fuori moda … o gli altri europei non capiscono noi … spedizionieri io e te su un’altra barca? … Io al momento non riesco a pensare a una risposta che può comprendere o voler comprendere l’altro … che ne dici? … Servus da Austria a Italia …
… what would say Aristo, what Jesus Christus, what Buddha and what Mohammed? … what would be their opinion? … and what the three old greece philosophers? …
Servus from far EuropePeter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Hallo Edgar, Meditation is a term, It describes a frame of mind common among all people, a frame of mind you yourself experience every time you are engaged I a level of concentration where your awareness of time is irrelevant and the act of doing is so automatic it is subconscious and you are barely aware of the act of doing. I’m sure this is something you experience quite often when you are creating a work of art. It is part of the process of reaching within, it is a zone of being that lies between conscious awareness and subconscious knowing, The practice of meditation allows us to enter this zone of awareness at will as we practice achieving this relaxed state. Meditation has been used in all cultures since the beginning of humankind. The is the link between physical existence and the awareness of or faith in the creative power we attribute to our existence. The term meditation is but a word, a tool of communication describing a thought process.
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Good morning Peter.., we can also draw parallels to says Aristotle’s theories were possible from his method of mediation and this would apply to all great thinkers who were able to achieve greater heights and success in their field of knowledge. In their case they sat for longer periods thinking on one single problem and question to achieve positive results that we are able to benefit today..,
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Thank you Sunil, for a time I read many biographies and found your parallel so common in the lives of notable writers, artists, scientists, philosophers, theologians, etc, and Jesus Christ is said to have spent forty days and nights in one meditation.
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Edgar Plaute
Seniors Maschinenbauingenieur, fine art craftsman “Der Andere Linolschnitt” linocuts multi-colored, spatula stone&tiles
Hallo Peter … nachts um 2 oder 3 Uhr kann ich eine Eingebung haben, das soll heißen die Lösung eines schwierigen Problems finden, wenn ich das suche und zulasse … das hörte ich von den Alten immer wieder als ich noch sehr jung … aber ich glaubte ihnen nicht, weil die Alten immer blöde Ideen haben … heute bin ich selbst einer dieser Alten … aber die Jungen glauben mir nicht, weil die Alten immer blöde Ideen haben …
… ich weiß jene Stille und Ruhe um mich herum, die ich dazu brauche, dann kommt das fehlende Glied von selbst … möglichst mit Blues, Folk oder Gregorianischer Musik, möglichst monoton mit den drei Noten einer Terz im Baritonbereich … ich selber habe habe in mehreren Chören sehr viel gesungen und bin bzw. war ein Tenor …
… ob das Meditation ist, weiß ich nicht … der Fachausdruck ist auch nicht wichtig … aber ich kann nachher lächeln, und das ist wirklich wichtig … ebenso wichtig wäre für mich, dass Ranjan ein solches Lächeln akzeptieren kann? … vielleicht liest er diesen Gedanken von mir …
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in my English:
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night around 2 or 3 clock I can have an epiphany, that is to say the solution to a difficult problem, see if I desire and registering … I heard from the old man again and again when I was very young … but I did not believe them, because the ancients always have stupid ideas … Today I am one of these old … but the boys do not believe me, because the ancients always have stupid ideas …
… I know that silence and peace around me that I need to, then comes the missing link of yourself … possible with blues, folk music or Gregorian, as monotonously with the three notes of a third in the baritone range … I myself have had sung in several choirs and very much am or was a tenor …
… whether the meditation is, I do not know … the technical term is not important … but afterwards I can smile, and that’s really important … would be also important for me is that Ranjan can accept such a smile? … maybe he reads this thought of mine …
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Good morning to you all hope you’re all enjoying a good day in your own creative environment. For the month of September we have brought Aristotle and other great thinkers in our topic of conversation..,
Aristotle’s theory was as artists a trade to our skills as greater observers of Life we therefore better equipped to capture what we see and experienced to be transferred into our work. The more we observed Life through our other senses the more details and information we are able to reflect in our work. We acknowledge the role of all the great old masters with their life long achievements today still inspires all the modern generation of artists. We continue further to draw onto parallel observation and provide examples on his statement ” The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance, but the inward significance”.
Having an understanding of our opening comments we want to continue the topic to explore how every decision we each make can influence the bigger picture or the overall balance of art around the World.
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Good morning to you all hope your day has started from the right side of bed with rushing impulsive energy, buzzing with lovely ideas, all awaiting our creative mind to transform these brilliant thoughts onto our blank canvas.If you need help then bring one of Aristotle’s famous quotes to mine…,
“Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit”. Or use them in your meditation program and let us talk about it here in our creative lounge.., happy enjoyable weekend to you all!
Peter Filzmaier
Artist at Filzmaier Studio
Aristotle’s theory of what art is applies as much today as ever. What has changed is, since the advent of the camera and methods of printing the role of the professional artist has changed. until the photographic image was conceived all modes of printing relied on professional artists to create images using techniques such as woodcuts, linocuts and etchings and many of these artist also produced fine art in portraiture, landscapes and figurative art and the Aristotelian aesthetic influenced distinct styles. Now we are in a world where there are those that feel the word professional no longer applies as there are fewer artists that actually make a living from their work and those that do make a living from their work have expanded the meaning of art to where we are is in a state of flux as to the definition of art. This becomes a difficult task as we continue to expand concepts and mediums of expression. When I apply Aristotle’s theory to this modernity of expression it becomes easier for me to separate what is from what is not.
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Good evening Peter, Thank you for adding yet another twist to better understand the history of modern art with invention of the camera and the lenses to produce images.. This was another turning point at the beginning stage of the progressive Era of change, the introduction of photography that many artists either resisted and those that embraced the technology had used the process to learn and progress further with their own skill and technique…, We can following this from some of the finest later works produced by likes of Picasso and even in the Dutch painter Vermeer., once again here finding examples to better understand the relationship of Aristotle’s theory on Art ..,
As we bring ourselves to present day into the 21st century and look forward into the future we are face with another dilemma the changing period of modern computer imaging (digital Art)?
Robbie Robertson
Best young artist of the 21st Century~ David Shapiro
In 2005 I applied all that I had studied and learned from my great Educators and started all over with my left hand or my “Lesser Hand”.
I have worked almost exclusively with my left hand since…I did this to reach higher levels of creativity and I have yet to have my creative block return.
I would suggest the same for any artist who has truly mastered his dominate hand. There is nothing like feeling like a child while having the mind set of a master.
RR
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Robbie welcome to our creative lounge thank you for your comments.Scientific research has been done to confirmed using our left hand is linked with working with the right hand side of the brain that is associated with creativity and left side being our logical. We welcome feedback from all our members for your comments
Robbie Robertson
Best young artist of the 21st Century~ David Shapiro
Terrence~ That made me laugh thinking about you trying to sculpt with your lesser hand… yes not a wise choice early on. Using the lesser hand has been taught over and over again but not all students continue with the daily practice…I became addicted to the stark difference between the two hands…My primary goal is to have a creative idea and not have to think about which hand picks up the pen to translate it to paper.
Robbie Robertson
Best young artist of the 21st Century~ David Shapiro
Sunil~ Brain Gems is a great book on the subject.
antonino Gambino
Direttore Amm.vo presso Ministero delle Infrastrutture e Trasporti, ma principalmente “ARTISTA”
Excuse me my absence, but as I said I do not receive the email of the comments link of our group. Today, by chance I opened this page, I read all the comments, I tried to understand, I’m a little confused. Parliamo di meditation and reflection. All life is full of moments of meditation and reflection, he waited for the bus, in the waiting rooms of doctors, to pay their bills, for a job interview; the moments you spend in an elevator, in my work bonding time between one piece and the other nights. Mostly nights, is during the night that I bnilancio of my day, that developing ideas for a new project, I get up to throw down a sketch. Make “art” is not a habit but a physiological need, is the medium that allows me to shout to the whole world what I think. The thoughts are not a habit, the walking is not a habit (every step has its own history), take the brush or the cutter is a habit but not stroke or cutting. Go to bed, wash, eat etc … are necessary habits, behaviors almost automatic. Making art is not only an expression of habit is as alive and that allows you to find new stimuli, emotions, enthusiasm to create new works. But not just your art must also be an expression of your child, joy, fun and play. Edgar you are linocut, I’m a woodcarver. Hi I hope that the translator works well and good day
Sunil Vilas
Founder
Good afternoon to all our GICAS members welcome to our Creative Lounge, Rosalind thank you for bringing one of our greatest topic we introduce as an organisation to cover. THe coversation around Aristotles theory on ART?
Perhaps we could revisit the question and get an up to date perpective from ALL the new members joining us..,
What are your views on the questions?
All are welcome to make their own observations. It would be wonderful to leave the question open for months of August and if possible September.
Have a wonderful TUESDAY!!
chantal roussel roggia
artiste peintre
@Sunil
I read with great interest Aristotle …. and I find myself in these explanations:
“These three elements, when combined or used separately, are the means of imitation. This definition provides a means of distinguishing between music, poetry, dance and theater”
The curiosié is an indispensable tool and an essential engine failure is a prerequisite to increased risk-taking … also … we all have challenges to meet in order to know a little more … and develop this perception, art allows us to evolve and extract limitless imagination … this for me when I create, ideas and emotions flowing and cause a state of impressive concentration …
thank you very much Sunil I’ll dig this topic with great interest.
THE ART FOUNDATION
ALL material on this website is protected copyrights reserved by Globalization ICAS / Group Founder Sunil Vilas
email: info@vilascollection.co.uk
… eine Malerei beispielsweise des 20./21. Jahrhunderts war zur Zeit des Aristoteles unbekannt … wenn wir uns von seiner “mimesìs” leiten lassen, müssen wir akzeptieren, dass er eigentlich über Poetik memoriert, die damals bereits hoch entwickelt war … er geht davon aus, dass Kunst Nachahmung bedeutet “zur Freude der Menschen” … das machen wir Maler auch … wir malen zur Freude für uns selbst, wir malen aber auch zur Freude unserer Umwelt … und zur unserer eigenen Selbstbestätigung … auch wir brauchen Applaus, wenn wir uns weiter entwickeln wollen … Aristoteles hatte keinen finanziellen Aspekt im Auge … auch die anderen “Analytiker der Lebensweisheiten” kaum … sehr oft waren sie Träumer die von der Hand in den Mund lebten … und in alten Fässern wohnten …
… ich möchte gerne wissen, ob ein Rembrandt oder ein Picasso oder wir anders gemalt hätten, wenn Aristoteles nicht die Poetik sondern die darstellende Kunst als Mutter der gesamten Kunst verehrt hätte … oder ist jede Philosophie nur graue Theorie? … ich gestehe, als ehemaliger Maschinenbauingenieur neige zu dieser Ansicht … wie sehr oft meine Kommentare zeigen … aber ohne den Zündfunken des Widerspruches wäre jede philosophische Betrachtung tatsächlich graue Theorie für Spinner … und ebenso ohne Humor! …
in my English:
… for example a painting of 20-21. century was in the time of Aristotle unknown … if we let ourselves be guided from his “mimesis”, we must accept that he actually memorized about poetics that was already highly developed … he believes that art is imitation “to the delight of the people” … what we painters are doing also … we paint for joy for ourselves, but we also paint to the delight of our environment … and for our own self-affirmation … we also will need applause when we want to develop further … Aristotle had no financial aspect … the other “analysts worldly wisdoms” hardly … very often they were dreamers who lived from hand to mouth … and were living in olden barrels … …
… I would like to know if a Rembrandt or a Picasso or you and I differently would have painted if Aristotle had not honored the poetry but the performing arts as the mother of all arts … or any philosophy is only gray theory? … I admit, as a former mechanical engineer I tend towards this view … which often show my comments … but without the ignition spark of contradiction would be every philosophical consideration actually gray theory for spinners … and also devoid of humor! …
wow !! what a wonderful inspiring read and insight into the world of philosophy…following on from Sunil.s last quote about spending time thinking. I spend a lot of time sitting in fromt of my paintings, contemplating and re-connecting with my it, before I start work on it each time. Once ready and with brush in hand , i am then connected and part of the painting again. Funny but I need this meditative time each day to fully engage and immerse myself into the possible narratives of the figures i paint.
Thanks again everyone for all the inspiring quotes from Socrates and Aristotle……
Lesley welcome to our creative lounge these opportunities and practices are very valuable and to be encourage more.., bringing John Lennon one of my favourite Beatles wrote all his famous songs sitting down to meditate he describe the moment as endless pool of ideas and flashes of brilliance to his words for many of his famous songs!!!
Thank you Sunil
all these comments are very interesting !!
Openness to experience is always the strongest indicator of creative achievement”, “This includes many different facets, but they are all interconnected: intellectual curiosity, thrill seeking, openness emotions, openness to fantasy. What brings them together is the quest for a personal exploration of the world, as well as our inner world and our outer world. ”
Creative people grasp the value of a clear and focused mind – because their work depends. Many artists, entrepreneurs, writers and other creators, such as David Lynch, turned to meditation to access their most creative state of mind.